Why you feel stuck in a constant loop of pain, even after decades of therapy

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Why you feel stuck in a constant loop of pain, even after decades of therapy

Have you ever wondered why no matter how hard you seem to work, or how many years you go to therapy, you still feel stuck?

I used to think about this all the time.

Because in theory... if you keep going to therapy and doing the work you should be making progress right?


If you're like many people you've been in therapy for months, years, or even decades with little or no results.

As someone that cares about you, I feel obligated to tell you: this is not okay.

Here's the jarring truth:

If you're not making progress, you should be. Week after week. Month after month.


So why are so many people stuck and not getting results?

The mental health system is focused on the fundamentally wrong thing.

In our podcast today we discuss *exactly* what this problem is and what YOU can do to change your journey if you're not getting results.


You should be making progress and getting closer to full recovery. If you're not we literally made this video just. for. you.

Take advantage of the pain we've been through to learn this information so we can save you decades of more running in circles with nothing to show for it.

You can heal.

You're not broken, you're not a lost cause, you're capable of more than you realize.

See you there,
Kayleen & Brad

Transcript

Brad  0:00  

Hey everybody, today we're talking about why you feel stuck in a constant loop of pain. And the reason why you can go to therapy for decades and see no results. This is the overcoming PTSD podcast with me, Brad Schipke. And I am joined by my lovely, lovely co host (and I am her co host), Kayleen Wright.

Kayleen Wright  0:19  

Hey, everybody.

Brad  0:20  

So if you feel like you are just feeling stuck, you're doing everything that you possibly can; you're going to therapy, you're taking your medication, you're doing your coping skills, you're doing your grounding exercises, your breathing exercises, and you just feel like you're stuck. And nothing's getting better year after year, decade after decade. This podcast is for you, because we are going to highlight the reason why that's happening.

Brad  0:42  

Because if you don't know the reason why that you're stuck in this loop, you will stay stuck. And that's why so many people stay stuck. So this is what we're going to be talking about today, it's going to be an amazing, amazing episode.

Kayleen Wright  0:54  

As per always, and it is always so fun to come here and do these episodes, mostly because we remember what it's like to be in that really challenging spot of going to therapists and doctors and like just constantly, you know, giving our best effort; but despite the effort we're putting in, getting no results. So you know, our first kind of point that we want to cover today is like why most techniques and therapy don't work. So Brad, you want to jump into that?

Brad  1:19  

Sure. Yeah. So we're gonna be covering four things in this podcast. First thing being why most techniques and therapy don't work. The second thing coping is important, but why it's not everything. The third thing, what is true healing. And the last thing is how to actually get true healing and where to get help. So, why most techniques and therapy don't work is because they mostly deal with a surface level effects. They never really get down to the root of it. Right?

Brad  1:47  

So like, when you go to therapy, right? When we went to therapy, it was just like, you know, maybe you talk, like you go to general talk therapy, and they're like, oh, like how, like, how are you doing? What are your problems, and then you just end up just kind of complaining about what you're going through. And then if you're lucky, they'll give you some coping skills.

Brad  2:04  

I remember asking my therapist, I was like, Can you give me some like resources I can use? Like, what's a good book? And they're like, well, here's one. She pulled out, like this old dusty book from like, I don't know, one of her psychology classes, and it's like this big textbook, but you're, you're basically brought through these processes that only deal with the effect and not the core.

Kayleen Wright  2:27  

And it's, I mean, one of the greatest examples that I like to use for this is you know, imagine that you have a common cold right? And so the symptoms of a common cold are what? You sneeze you cough maybe you have a sore throat, maybe you have a headache, right? But the root of the cold is a virus now so you know going through your day going through your life with a common cold, what do you do? You cope with the symptoms, right, while you wait for the virus to heal itself? Right?

Kayleen Wright  2:51  

So you're coping with the symptoms, you're taking cough drops, you're taking maybe like DayQuil, NyQuil, whatever it is acetaminophen, right to get rid of the headache, you know, so it really doesn't matter. You can take as many cough drops as you want. You can use you know, tissues all you want, you can use, you know, the the Sudafed, and all of the things that you want in regards to coping with that cold. But what happens when that stuff wears off? I remember like, being in middle school, high school and having this is now, I realize, not an okay thing to do...

Kayleen Wright  3:23  

But I remember, you know, having a cold and then like going to school, right, our rule in our house was like, you know, if you didn't need to go see the doctor, you had to go to school?

Brad  3:31  

Yeah, that was my role.

Kayleen Wright  3:32  

Right. And so, you know, we went to school, even if we were sick, right, so we would take Dayquil, you know, we would take Sudafed things too, we would be like loaded with cough drops and tissues so that we could get through the day.

Kayleen Wright  3:44  

Now I remember like taking the Dayquil, or whatever it was, and then first through like fifth period, it was okay, I'm like, I'm feeling okay, I'm not feeling my best, but I'm feeling okay, I'm not sneezing as much I'm not coughing as much and feeling okay. And then towards the end of the day, when that medicine started to wear off, guess what happens? Those symptoms come back. And so all that you're doing is basically covering up those symptoms.

Kayleen Wright  4:04  

Now, it's not your fault that you have those symptoms, it's not your fault; you sneeze and you cough because you have a cold. So the root is the you know, the virus itself, the symptoms are the sneeze and the cough and the you know, the fatigue and the headache, okay, and so PTSD is no different.

Kayleen Wright  4:19  

Okay, the root is the trauma, the unprocessed trauma, and the the surface of what's going on the symptoms are the flashbacks, the angry outbursts, the anxiety, the depression, okay, and so what you're doing with coping skills, and what you're typically kind of doing with, you know, common therapy practices, and this is what, you know, we experienced what we hear time and time again, is you're coping with the surface, you're taking cough drops, you're taking DayQuil you're taking things to help get you through the day, but once they wear off, the deeper root is still there. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Brad  4:54  

Oh, absolutely. And something funny that I like, actually, while you're just saying that it's kind of off topic, but not really Like, what do you think about, like, when you get a virus, right? You're saying like, you know, you take all this medication, you know, whatever you blow your nose, I don't know. But whatever you said, and you said a lot of good things. But it doesn't actually get to the root of it. But when you have a virus or something, it's your body that creates the antibodies, right? Right, that attack the virus, right.

Brad  5:21  

So your body is the natural healer, right? And the weird thing, the weird connection that I made was like, your brain also has that natural healing ability, that natural processing ability in your brain to process all the trauma that you went through. Now, there are tools and modalities and techniques that can help you kind of harness that information processing system in your brain, but ultimately, like, you're built for healing, right, everything that you need for healing is inside of you.

Brad  5:48  

And that's like, a really key shift even mindset wise, right? So it's like, it's not a pill, right? It's not a pill. It's not like somebody else, somebody else isn't gonna save you, right? It's not like, whatever this breathing exercise, it's you have, you have the goods, right?

Kayleen Wright  6:03  

Yeah, you haveit all in you. And I think to like, relate this back, right. So Brad's talking about something called the information processing system. And basically, it's the system in your brain. This is why some people get PTSD and others don't. You know, there's a lot of things that kind of go into that. So I'm painting it with a broad brush here. But basically, we have this system in our brain that is constantly processing information, we call it the information processing system, really unique, non intuitive name, right, you're not never going to remember that.

Kayleen Wright  6:28  

So the information processing system is always active, it is constantly processing information. So whether that's good information or bad information, you can think of it like it's filtering through this system. And then that information is getting stored in your long term memory, it's getting sorted, your brain is doing all of the filing, basically, that it needs to do. Now what happens with some people with trauma, you can think of that system as basically getting overloaded, I can sometimes you'll hear me use the word glitch, right, which, you know, if that word works for you, that's fine. But basically, what happens is that symptom, excuse me, that system gets overloaded, it basically glitches it malfunctions.

Kayleen Wright  7:05  

In an effort to protect you, it kind of shuts that system down, and it skips that part of the process for some people. So two people go through the exact same event, one person's information processing system does everything fine and well, and they don't end up with PTSD. Sure, it was still traumatic. Sure, it was still painful, but they don't end up with PTSD, another person could go through that same event, but that information processing system has, you know, a glitch; has a malfunction. And it is in an effort to protect you. So that system basically says hold on this is way, way, way, a lot of information, we're gonna kind of put that under the bed, right? You ever like your parents ever asked you to clean and instead of cleaning is shoved everything under the bed.

Kayleen Wright  7:46  

That's kind of what this system does. It says, You know what, we're just gonna put that strain to the long term memory straight into storage. And we'll just kind of deal with it at another time, it is too much to deal with right now, in an effort to protect you. What happens when your parents ask you to clean and you shove everything under the bed or in the closet, eventually, you're going to have to go back in and you're going to have to actually do the healing, right? And it can cause you a lot of trouble, right?

Kayleen Wright  8:09  

If it's if they're your parents or anything like my parents, you know, eventually they like, come up. And they're like, oh, wow, that was like, That was really fast cleaning. Good job. And then you start to like, you start to saying you said feel guilty. And you're like, yeah, like I'm a super cleaner. And then they're like, Are you sure it's not under the bed, and I'm like, totally sure. But just like go back downstairs for a couple minutes. And then, you know, I'll meet you, right. And so it's that same thing, your brain shoves the clothes under the bed, you have to go back in, but your brain still has the system to do it.

Kayleen Wright  8:38  

And so again, this is like we're auditorily describing this, but your brain stored everything in your long term memory; what needs to happen is you need to have a tool and a skill or a collection of tools and skills to bring things safely out of your long term memory and put them back into the information processing system, so that your brain can basically finish that work--so it can finish doing the cleaning. So everything is actually put away everything's actually sorted actually stored.

Kayleen Wright  9:03  

And that doesn't mean facing your trauma. That doesn't mean going through it again, and again. And again, that doesn't mean sharing your story or going through everything in excruciating detail. It can be the most non-invasive process; you can't even imagine how non-invasive that process can be. All you're doing is you're clearing out  underneath the bed and you're you're putting the clothes away,

Brad  9:19  

A lot of times it's a sense of relief. Yeah. You know, like it's a sense... like when you do it properly. You're not--like Kayleen said--you're not reliving it, you're not rehashing it, you're not dwelling in it, you get a sense of relief. And like there is like emotions that go with that but like if you're doing like the right process, like there's gonna be some pain there's gonna be a level of pain but like it's gonna have this huge sense of relief.

Kayleen Wright  9:39  

It's unbelievable. Yeah, and the the kind of key point there why i kind of told that that story is your brain does have this power. It has this power, it's always had this power. And now all we have to do is use tools and skills to kind of think of it like I just learned how to golf recently teeing it up, right? You just tee the ball up and your brain is going to swing and it's going to hit it knows what to do.

Kayleen Wright  10:00  

You just have to set it up for success. Now, is that an oversimplification? Of course it is. But at the same time, it's really not, that's what you need to do, you need to set yourself up for success. And it's not the big bad wolf. It's not this big, giant, scary thing that I definitely thought it was when I was at rock bottom.

Kayleen Wright  10:18  

I was like, you know, if healing is even possible, which I didn't even believe that it was, if healing is even possible, it means I'm gonna have to go through everything I've ever been through in excruciating detail, and talk to some stranger about it. And like, just just go through it again and again and again until it doesn't hurt basically, until I'm like numb to it. Right. That's what I thought that it was why I thought that I have no idea. I have no idea why people think that. But that's not the case.

Kayleen Wright  10:43  

And it couldn't be further from the truth. It is not the big bad wolf. Like Brad said, you get this tremendous sense of relief. It's like, I mean, it feels how like if you heard the word healing, it feels how that word like is described. That that's, that's what it feels like. It feels like healing. It feels like relief. It feels like a release. It's amazing.

Brad  11:05  

Yeah, it is. And I want to continue with that analogy, because I think is a great analogy. And Kayleen was somebody who obviously hit her clothes right under

Kayleen Wright  11:15  

I did, I still do. have you checked the closet.

Brad  11:19  

Well, she, I don't know, I see I find socks everywhere.

Kayleen Wright  11:24  

Don't look in the closet on the left,

Brad  11:27  

I will be sure to do that when we get home. So I on the other hand, I hid dishes. So my low points, I would I would have a sink full of dishes and I might have had company coming over and I would take all those dishes and I'd put them in a laundry bin, I'd go downstairs pick this is true by the way. So I did it multiple times. I have broken this bad habit. Luckily, I no longer do. I actually wash my dishes, or put them in the dishwasher.

Kayleen Wright  11:52  

Now I have a dishwasher which is excellent.

Brad  11:54  

I've broken that habit, luckily, but I would put it in a laundry bin and I would put it in a closet. And I remember one time my landlord who happened to be my aunt came over and like she was picking up some of her stuff. And she opened up the closet and there's all of her dishes in a laundry bin, I was like, I was like, don't, don't worry, I'm gonna do that. Don't worry, I'm just saving that for lzter, saving that.

Brad  12:16  

But to go back to what we're talking about, your brain gets overwhelmed, you experienced this trauma, you experienced this traumatic event, and you feel all of these emotions and and that just overload your brain and you can't fully process it all at once. So to continue with that analogy or that metaphor of you know, the trauma being the dirty clothes, and you just kind of shove it in the closet. What you're doing, when you cope is like you keep shoving things in the closet, keep shoving things in the closet, and then it overflows. And then basically, coping is like okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna deal with the few things that overflowed

Kayleen Wright  12:53  

and try to back on top back in. But yeah, like it's just piling out and you're just like, constantly like, pushing it back in.

Brad  13:00  

Yeah. So that's what really happens, right? Like your trauma gets triggered, it comes out of the long term memory with all those emotions, all those beliefs, all those negative thoughts, and then you kind of just shove it back in. Whether you shove it back in or shove it back in is kind of an extreme way.

Kayleen Wright  13:17  

Yeah, it sounds harsher than I know, you're meaning it to.

Brad  13:20  

Just with the analogy, that's the best way to describe it. But you you basically calm yourself down enough so that it basically recedes back into the long term memory until it's triggered again. So basically goes into hibernation or hiding, until you come into a stimulus in your environment that reminds you of the trauma and triggers you again, right.

Brad  13:40  

So that thing that kind of calms you down. That could be a breathing exercise. That could be you know, venting that could be journaling. Journaling can be processing at times, depending on how you do it. A grounding exercise. But that's kind of like what you're doing, you're not deal, you're not solving the problem. You're not taking all the clothes out and solving it. It's like you're just, you're just putting it back in. It's just a temporary fix. And that's why people can feel stuck for a long time. So...

Kayleen Wright  14:08  

For decades, if you've been and I will probably say is almost every episode. If you've been seeing someone professionally for decades, and you don't have results and you are not fully healed, something needs to change. And I just have to tell you, I have to be honest with you. It's likely it's not you. It's it's no offense to the person that you're working with. It's just it may be it's the practice that they're using. Maybe it's the way that they're using the practice. It's not them as a person. But something needs to change. If you've been seeing someone for years and you don't have full recovery, full healing.

Kayleen Wright  14:46  

Something needs to change. It really does. It does not have to take years and we hear this all the time. And healing is possible. Full recovery is possible. This is what you're going to hear on this podcast. We're gonna be honest with you, we're going to be real with you.

Kayleen Wright  15:00  

I was on the phone with someone yesterday. And, you know, he was telling me he had worked with, he's been working with a therapist for years that in my brain is the first red flag, something needs to change. You're not getting what you deserve to be getting out of your life, okay? You need to be healing. Because you deserve it, because you deserve it. And, you know, then he was saying, you know, when I started seeing her, basically, I had certain thoughts about healing, and she kind of helped set me straight, and kind of helped me reframe what healing means.

Kayleen Wright  15:26  

And that was my second red flag. I was like, okay, so he went in. And, you know, we discovered this further in the call, he went in thinking, okay, I can heal, you know, I've been through this trauma, or I've been through this experience, but I can heal, I can heal, and then I can live my life and I can be who I want to be. And he went in and she reframed healing for him to look like this: to look like, you know, healing looks like getting coping, managing better, you're always gonna be hurt, like, learning how to live with this.

Kayleen Wright  15:55  

And I got to tell you that it really upset me, there are very few things that upset me at like, really any sort of level, right these days, but I can't even think of something, right. It's just like, things like that, where it's just like, it breaks my heart more than upset me, it breaks my heart, because, you know, she's trying to do justice, she's trying to do a good thing. She's doing the best that she can this clinician, right. And at the same time, it's so so damaging, because true healing is possible recovery is possible.

Kayleen Wright  16:23  

And if you're like, Well, you know, I'm just not so sure about that. People have told me I'm broken, and people have told me I'll never recover. And PTSD is impossible to heal, that's fine. You can believe that. And that's okay. Okay, and we're going to help you break that belief. And if you don't believe in full recovery, right now, that's okay, what I want you to try to believe in is that you can get a little bit better, you can heal, you can get a little bit better, because it starts with one step at a time.

Kayleen Wright  16:43  

And then from there, you're going to get a little bit better if you take action, if you listen to what we say, you're going to get a little bit better. And then I want you to believe you can get a little bit better. Okay. And eventually you kind of reached this point really well, I've gotten a lot better, maybe maybe it is possible to heal. Okay. So and now, you know, we've been kind of talking about coping in a negative light. So I want to bring it back to our second point here. Right, which is that coping actually isn't I'm sorry, you're ready to move on our second point?

Brad  17:07  

No, okay. You just went right into it, didn't even give me a warning!

Kayleen Wright  17:09  

Well, here's your warning.

Brad  17:12  

What I wanted to say was, if you are, if you're in a position where you keep going to the same therapist, you know what you are going to get? Alright, if you've been with that same person, and things haven't changed, you know what you're going to get in the future. Right? So if you want change, you need to change.

Brad  17:32  

And then the question I want to ask you is, I want you to ask yourself, Am I coping or am I healing and you'll know, if you're coping, if you're still getting triggered, if you still have that deep, kind of hurt. But maybe you're just learning how to kind of deal with it better or manage it better. That's how you know you're coping and not truly healing. And if you're not seeing tangible results, if you're not feeling a more, a deeper sense of peace inside of you, as you work as you do the work, then you're not healing.

Brad  18:00  

It's very noticeable when you heal it you know, when you're healing when you're not. So my question to you is to ask yourself, Am I coping with this, with the expectation that I'm just going to be managing this for the rest of my life? Because if you're only going to cope, that you're just going to manage it for the rest of your life. That's reality. That's how a lot of people live. And that's why we do what we do is to tell you that you don't have to live like that, or are you healing or things actually getting better? On a deep internal level where you can actually tangibly feel that peace inside of you?

Brad  18:33  

Because that's a very important important question. Because if you're not healing, if you're not truly healing, if you're not truly getting to the core, and you're not feeling an increasing level of inner peace inside of you, then things need to change. Things in your life need to change because if the if you don't make the change, things won't change. You can't keep doing the same things and expecting different results. It's such a simple phrase, but you like if you think about it, like change requires change.

Brad  19:04  

Change requires change, but most people don't want to change. Most people hate change, right? They despise change, they fight the change, right?

Kayleen Wright  19:11  

If you want different results, you have to take different actions.

Brad  19:14  

If you want your life to change, change, don't keep doing the same habits don't do don't keep going to the same therapist. Don't keep doing the same things. Don't keep using the same tools. If you want change, you have to change.

Kayleen Wright  19:23  

And I think just to give you a framework of like what you should be looking at, you should feel results like week to week, okay, but you should be looking at healing in weeks and months, not years and decades, weeks and months, not years and decades. And you should be feeling progress each week.

Kayleen Wright  19:41  

And you should be feeling better each week. Now there sure there are highs and lows to this journey. I'm not asking you it's not linear. No. And I'm not asking you to be a perfect person and like things go right things go wrong, right. But overall, you should be seeing progress weekend and week out and month in and month out. In true progress, and if you're like, I don't know, if I'm making progress, then then you're probably not. And that's okay. And it's not your fault.

Brad  20:07  

And then also progress. Progress can look differently. That's a, that's a thing where people can get lost to, right. Sometimes they start doing something for like a week or two weeks. And they don't, they don't see like that tangible piece that I talked about, or that I was talking about. And they think that they're not making progress. But in the beginning of the healing journey, now this is going further, this is going further into, like the tools and actual like processing of the trauma.

Brad  20:32  

But sometimes when you actually start the processing and the healing process, when you're actually going to identify the root of the trauma, and you're attempting to process it. Sometimes you just taking steps forward and building awareness and opening the door and be like, Oh, this is how I'm hurt. And this is how this this hurt me and like you're learning, because like, like when you like you don't know, all the ways that you've been hurt by your trauma.

Kayleen Wright  20:54  

The recovery process is a discovery process, you need to go inside of your... like, when you go inside of yourself to heal. I just like I want to pause I just expected to like an applause at that. I love that right that discovery process. But the recovery process is a discovery process, like you don't know everything that's going on inside of you. And you don't have to know. Because when you start going in and you start healing, you discover what hurt you. So progress can look different. Right? That's what I want to say is like, you can make progress and not feel like feel different. Right? immediately,

Kayleen Wright  21:28  

Yeah, it's not always, sometimes it is. But it's not always immediate results. And so we have this saying, Love the lag. And basically, that means like the work that you do now, you know, you're doing all this work, you're taking all this action, you you might not feel those results for a week or two weeks or longer, depending on what it is that you're working with. Right. And so especially in the beginning of the recovery journey, there can be this big lag between when you're starting to take these actions and when you're starting to feel the results.

Kayleen Wright  21:54  

So you're right, I was I was a little misguided and telling you like weak, weak, weak, weak, you know, but but as you start to get that consistency, which is one of the pillars of recovery that we talked about, as you start to get that consistency, that that lag, shortens, and then you you start to feel the result.

Brad  22:11  

The biggest lag is in the beginning, when you're first trying to learn the tools and apply the tools. Think of it like that, or like skills, right? Like you can't expect yourself to be really good at healing your first time you can't expect yourself to know how to ride the bike, a bike the first time you get to ride a bike, right? Like it's unreasonable to think that you'd be perfect at the skill of healing the first time that you go in. And so there is a learning curve. Right?

Brad  22:32  

There's a lag to you, learning this skill, honing that skill of healing in yourself, and learning everything that like has hurt you in the past. So you gotta love the lag. Yes, so you gotta love the lag.

Brad  22:45  

So that's the second thing... before we move on to the actual second thing in here is this just like crossed my mind. If you are working with someone, ask yourself and even ask them if they have the goal of full recovery as the goal and not the goal of management because you would be surprised. We had... one of our clients was a behavioral health specialist therapist for 10 years. And he was one of the best in the field. Right. And then when he came to work with us, he realized that man like the whole field, or at least the people that he was exposed to, and, and people that he worked with, he was like the goal was management. The goal wasn't true healing, the goal wasn't full recovery, it was just management; it was just getting by.

Brad  23:26  

So ask yourself, do you first of all, do you have the goal of management? That's the first question, do you have the goa of, I just want to manage I just want to get by? Or do I have the goal of full recovery, healing and nothing short of that, because that's the goal you need to have. And then you want to ask whoever you're working with, what's your goal for this? Is your goal for me to teach me some coping skills and just help me get by, because that's not what I'm looking for.

Brad  23:51  

You want somebody who believes in you, and I don't know how many people actually believe in that. So the biggest thing really is for you, because it all comes from you independently, like you need to be able to take control of your life and your recovery. And that's why the belief in you and your abilities is paramount to everything else, and everybody else and everybody else's beliefs. So you can go to somebody who doesn't believe or isn't focused on full recovery, and you can go in and you can make the most out of that. Because you believe in full recovery. And you're going to take the most out of that, and even start to change how you approach whatever, whatever you're doing. So that's all I had to say.

Kayleen Wright  24:28  

One kind of point just on that, right. So Brad saying like, You are the most important that it's most important that you approach this with the goal in mind of full recovery. And again, if you're like not quite fully believing, you can lean into that definitely lean into that and just the goal of progress in general, like true progress on your healing journey.

Kayleen Wright  24:48  

And then you know, the other thing is like, you can go in and take charge, okay? It's not it's not... just because they were a coat or they have letters at the end of their name or whatever it is. No other human being should be in charge of your healing except for you, us included, you are the most important person in this process.

Kayleen Wright  25:05  

So you can go in and we've done this, you know, with therapists, you go in and you say, here are my goals. Can you help me achieve them? Can you help give me the tools, the guidance, the resources, whatever, to help me achieve these goals. And do you believe that I can achieve these goals? And find someone that will believe in you. And that will kind of let you lead the process, but give you the tools, the resources, the skills, the support to do that, because that is most important.

Brad  25:28  

And if somebody says no, and that's unreasonable, and you shouldn't be aiming that high? Run. And you will find you'll likely find quite a few people because we did. Not a lot of people a lot. A lot of people think oh, that's that seems kind of unreasonable. That seems like a high goal.

Kayleen Wright  25:40  

Maybe we should talk about, you know why you feel like you need to do all that.

Brad  25:44  

Do you think that's realistic? Like, come on, like,

Kayleen Wright  25:47  

Maybe we should start to learn how to lower our goals.

Brad  25:52  

That one triggered me.

Kayleen Wright  25:55  

Okay, so are you ready to move on to our second point?

Brad  25:58  

I'm ready now.

Kayleen Wright  25:59  

Okay. Okay. So our second point here, right? So we've been, you know, kind of talking about coping in a more negative light, and I want to bring it back into a positive light, because coping is important. Coping is important. So now you're probably like, what, what are you guys saying? Why? What? But coping actually is important, right. And so coping is kind of the first step to the journey.

Kayleen Wright  26:18  

So the good news is, if you've been coping for a long time, you have a really good foundation for that, and you've done the first step. So that's great. And so I kind of think of the the journey sometimes in two pieces, and it's learning how to cope so you can get enough relief and manage day to day, so that you can have the focus and have the energy and have the ability to actually focus on the true core healing that needs to be done.

Kayleen Wright  26:42  

So that's sometimes how we split it up into just two basic pieces, coping little piece at the beginning. And that's even something that we teach, right. So in the recovery program, that we teach them, how we coach people, one of the first things we cover is an entire toolbox called the recovery toolbox of coping skills, because it is important. And also, that's like 1/10 of... No, it's probably much less than that. It's like 100th of everything else that we do, because that's how it should be weighted, because it's the first thing, but it is not everything. And so you cope so that you can focus on the true healing so that you can get by day to day, while you're healing the root.

Brad  27:19  

Yeah, also, like when we say it's like the first thing, but not everything. Like it's like this much of what we teach, you know, like, compared to everything that we teach, it's like this in the beginning. And then there's so much more after that. It's, it is vital, it is vital. Yeah, it is vital to know how to get tools, and get relief, to know tools, and how to get relief on demand.

Brad  27:39  

And just a little hook to later... we're going to be releasing a book that Kayleen wrote on those exact same tools that are inside of our program that you can get, we're going to be giving away for free, all you have to do is pay shipping. So you can look forward to that, that's just going to be out in December or early next year. But I'm just kind of putting it out there because it's gonna be awesome. It's called The Art of Trauma Relief.

Brad  28:02  

But coping is... it is vital, it is important. Because if you cannot manage your symptoms, if you can't get relief on demand when it comes up, first of all, you're not you're not gonna be able to function, right? That's a big, that's a big change that people see when they first like when we first teach them the coping skills. It's like, man, like I can function, I can even go back to work if I wanted to, because now I have the skills and the confidence that I can manage this, right?

Brad  28:25  

But it doesn't stop there. It's just the first step. Because if you're constantly in this triggered state, and you can't manage your, your emotions, or your symptoms or anything like that, you're not going to be able to go deeper in the processing, you're not going to be able to focus like Kayleen said, on learning other things or doing the work that you need to do to actually fully recover. So it is a very, very essential step. And it will greatly greatly increase the quality of your life and confidence in yourself.

Kayleen Wright  28:49  

It really will. And that's that's why we are that's why I wrote the book, right? For that reason, because it is piece one. And like a bigger hook is like there are more books in in the kind of master plan to you know, help people with. Okay, that's piece one. But then what needs to happen after that. And of course, you know, for those of you who know or don't know, you can also you can coach with us one on one through my recovery program, our recovery program Broken to Unbreakable, that that shows you exactly how to heal, we call it the roadmap to recovery. Okay, and I just want to put that out there. For those of you who don't know, that is something that we have, we have the roadmap to recovery.

Kayleen Wright  29:25  

So what we're talking about on the podcast, are all things that we talked about within that program, some of you our clients, which is awesome, and we love that you you listen to the podcast as well. And some of you maybe this is the podcast that you're listening to. And just so you know, not only have we done it, we've both come from rock bottom and dug our way out. But along the way, we created a process. We created a roadmap. We've refined it year after year after year, and now we work with people all over the world, hundreds of people all over the world to get them the same exact results.

Kayleen Wright  29:57  

Okay, and so what Brad's talking about that that book that I just wrote is such a small sliver of that program. And what I was bigger hooking to was, you know, there is more in the works in regards to books. But that is the first thing that you can kind of look forward to.

Kayleen Wright  30:11  

But everything that you're hearing on this podcast, and I want to hone this in and I just I want you to listen to this, everything that you're hearing on this podcast is, from the roadmap to full recovery. I want you to think about that, you know, if you can't coach with us one on one, for whatever reason, everything that you're hearing every word out of our mouth is something from the journey to full recovery. So take it, write it down, run with it, take action on it, because this is the stuff that we wish we knew at rock bottom, that would have saved us decades, decades of pain, and work and effort. Okay, and most people are not as lucky as we are to have figured the process out, and we have it and we're giving it to you piece by piece, step by step. I feel like I'm coming off mean, I certainly don't mean to be, but just listen and take action.

Brad  31:06  

This is I mean, like, the way that I like to approach these these podcasts and talking to you guys is like, how would I speak to me? Or someone that I love, like a family member? Or like, what would I say to them? Right? Like, like, I genuinely want to help you guys. So like I come in with that frame of mind, like, what would I say to a loved one who's going through this? It's all these things. It's like, coping isn't healing, you need to change your mindset, you change if you want change. It's like all these things that we've been talking about. It's like, we love you guys, we want to help you guys. So yeah...

Kayleen Wright  31:38  

And it will help if you take action on it. Even if you're not part of the program, even if you're never going to be part of the program. That doesn't matter to us, we want to help you at the highest level. And honestly, the program is the best way to do that. Because we can give to you so much one on one. But that's why we're also here because we know not everyone can coach with us. And we want to help the world. And it does come from our heart.

Brad  31:56  

So yeah, so are you ready to move on to point number three?

Kayleen Wright  32:01  

Thank you for the heads up! Number three is what is true healing. So Brad, what is true healing?

Brad  32:06  

True healing is when you get down to the root, the source of the trauma, and you fully process it. So like we talked about earlier, when you experience a trauma, it over overloads, your information processing system overload your brain, so it never gets properly processed. And a lot of the times you're not even aware of all of the ways that that trauma has hurt you. So what you need to do, there's kind of two parts of it, right? true healing comes when you first identify what is the true source of that pain? You have to identify what is the true source, right? And a good way to identify is asking why why why why why getting down to the root. And there's a lot of other little nuances that come into play when you do that, but a lot of other nuances to that.

Brad  32:49  

But the first the first piece of true healing is identifying the root  identifying the source. And then the second part is processing that traumatic memory at the root. So once you know the root, you process the traumatic memory that was never properly processed in the first place. And when you properly process the traumatic memory, the symptoms never come up again. And that is true healing when you get to the root, and you process it the way it was supposed to be processed in the first place. If your brain could process it naturally. So it's almost going back into that traumatic memory and manually helping your brain process all of that information the way it should have.

Kayleen Wright  33:37  

So here's my go-to example. So listen up. I think it's a good one. I really, it's sometimes hard to find examples because you let us know. Yeah. Okay. pressures on. Okay. So here's a good example. And this one I'm about to describe can be traumatic, anything can be traumatic for someone or it could also be nontraumatic. So the first example I'm going to use is nontraumatic. And we're going to use actually the same example for both. So this is how the process should look. So you know, maybe you're a kid, and you know, you're in the kitchen. Maybe one of your parents is cooking, whatever it is, and the stove is hot, the stovetop is hot, right? And maybe one of your parents or your guardian, whatever. Like says like, Hey, don't touch that stove. It's hot. Okay, and you see it and it's red. Right? And what do you do? You touch the stove, right? So you touch a hot stove, it hurts. Okay, pain, that's number one thing that hurts, right? So you feel the pain on your hand, whatever you touched it with. Now, there's also sights right? So you see the sightof that the red stovetop, you're also having thoughts, right? So someone literally just told you not to touch the stove top or maybe they said something like, only idiots would touch a hot stove, right? And so then all of a sudden you have these negative thoughts.

Kayleen Wright  34:51  

So you have these thoughts of like, oh my goodness, I'm an idiot. Why did I do that? That hurt. Ouch. Right? And then maybe you have some anxiety. Maybe you have some emotions. sadness, fear, shame, whatever it is, right? All of these things are happening, because you have just experienced something challenging. Now, again, this could be traumatic or nontraumatic, let's use a nontraumatic example. All of that information, we call that the raw unprocessed information, the pain, the anxiety, the negative thoughts, the sights, the sounds, the smells, all of that goes into your information processing system. Okay, so goes into that system, your brain basically, in a very simple sense, it sorts the good from the bad. It says, okay, here are the couple of things that we want to use in the future, for recall, so things that it thinks will serve you long term. And here are all the things that we no longer need. And it basically tosses them out, right? It sorts them out.

Kayleen Wright  35:43  

And so what goes into your long term memory is, hey, when stoves are red, they are hot, do not touch them, what gets thrown out is the anxiety, the fear, the negative thoughts. And so the next time you see a red stovetop, all that happens is you have the thought, Hey, Red stove tops are hot, don't touch that. Really simple, easy, easy. Now, many of us when we see a red hot, red stovetop, you know, if you've had non traumatic experiences with that, you just simply like just have that thought, Oh, that's hot, don't have that. Okay. So that's non traumatic.

Kayleen Wright  36:16  

Here's what happens when that's traumatic, you touch the hot stove, you feel the anxiety, the fear, the negative thoughts, the shame, the pain, the you know, the the sadness, you feel all those feelings, so raw, unprocessed feelings, all of that because you know, for this for you, it is traumatic, your brain says that is so so much, we're going to skip the information processing system, we're going to put that into long term storage, right, so we're putting the word shoving out under the bed, okay, you put all of that information into your long term memory.

Kayleen Wright  36:46  

Okay, all of the information, the anxiety, the negative thoughts, the fear, the sights, the smells, the sounds, all of it goes into your long term memory. Now, what happens is the next time you're reminded of that event in any way, shape, or form, some or all of that is going to come out. So the next time you see a red stovetop, you're gonna have negative thoughts, you're gonna have fear, maybe you're gonna have a panic attack, right? So you're going to have all these things happen, because you didn't process that; it didn't go through the information processing system. So now true healing is taking that raw, unprocessed information, putting it back into the information processing system, so that it can do the sorting that it needs to do so that it can toss out the negative stuff, the stuff that you do not need in the future. And it can keep the stuff in long term storage that you will need for the future.

Kayleen Wright  37:36  

So for our traumatic example, we're going to use tools and skills to put that information back into the information processing system. When we do that, here's what happens. Your information processing system does what it was supposed to do the first time. It does the sorting, it does what we call learning and discovery. And it stores only what you will need in the future for serving you. Okay, and so then the next time you see a hot stove top, you see a red stovetop, all that comes up is that's hot, don't touch it, just like the rest of us who didn't have traumatic experiences with that. So that's kind of a lot to follow auditorially. But just to give you an example of, of what that can look like, and what kind of happens through that process. So that's true healing.

Brad  38:22  

Okay, so here's the verdict. That was an excellent example.

Kayleen Wright  38:25  

Oh, thank you.

Brad  38:26  

There you go. It was quite, quite wonderful. And I think all you guys would agree as well. If I do say so myself, so that is in the book. Yeah, that's a great...

Kayleen Wright  38:38  

It's a great example, it's very subdued in regards to a trauma example, it's pretty tough to pick things.

Brad  38:45  

Right, right. And for for any of you guys who don't like understand, like, oh, like, how does your brain process event like, like, what is like going on or like, I don't really understand that. That's like the natural healing process that we like I was talking about, we were talking about in the beginning. Or it's like you have that natural healing process, or the healing ability in your brain information processing system, that processes the information, throws out the negative emotions and keeps the lesson, right. So that's the natural, it's natural. It's in you, right, just as your body fights... has the antibodies builds the antibodies to kill the virus, whatever it is, your brain has that same ability, we just have to use it and harness it in the right way. So you good on that one?

Kayleen Wright  39:31  

Good on that one. That's true healing, so you never get triggered again. That is true, full healing,

Brad  39:36  

Right. And that's the goal. That's the goal, right? The goal. So when I was talking about before, and asking yourself, do like, when you ask yourself, Am I coping, or am I healing, right? Is my goal coping, or is my goal true healing, right? That's what that looks like.

Kayleen Wright  39:51  

And I do want to make one note here, right? So when I gave that example, I give that example it does paint it with a little bit of a broad brush and it does simplify it quite a bit and So I want you to know that, you know, it's not necessarily like you just put it back into the, your information processing system, and then it's done. I'm not...so I don't want to paint it like, what's going to happen is you're going to like use one tool once, although this can happen. And it just depends on some different factors. But you just use one tool once, and then you're fully healed.

Kayleen Wright  40:19  

There's kind of a, a kind of scale to this, where like, you have to work at this a few times. And so what you'll notice is you start getting triggered less and less and less, for the most part, some things you can do that processing, and it is an overnight, like fixed basically, again, it depends on a few different factors. But some things, you know, you kind of have to do quite a bit more processing. And you'll notice things start to lessen and lessen and lessen until they're not there at all. Does that kind of make sense?

Brad  40:49  

Yeah, well, what it is, is like, is like, again, what I was talking about before, the recovery process is a discovery process. So when you go inside of yourself, and you become aware of all these different parts that have been hurt, each one of those things need to be processed, right. So like, there might just be one big thing, right? Maybe you've gone through one big trauma and that one thing has only hurt you in one really strong way. And you can use the tool once to process that fully. So like I mean, that can't happen. Like it has happened with certain things.

Brad  41:18  

But more often, there's this web, kind of like a web of memories and emotions and beliefs and feelings that you discover through the recovery process that need to be healed, put into the information processing system. Whatever learning discovery happens, and it spits out, healed. Kind of lost it at the end there. But really, what I'm trying to say is like, when you go into learn and discover all the ways that you've been hurt each one of those little pieces, I like to call it like a memory network, or web of memories, or a web of beliefs, emotions, whatever that were caused by the trauma, all of those little things need to be healed in process. So it's not... like Kayleen says, it's not just a one and done. Right, right.

Kayleen Wright  42:05  

We use that, for example purposes, although again, it can be.

Brad  42:08  

So like, going back to that example of the stove, right? You might have the feeling of fear, right. So you might have the emotion again, I'm still simplifying it down. But just to kind of paint this picture out a little more, with a little bit more complexity, you might go through that, touch the stove, and then be afraid and be like terrified, and like that might have traumatized you in that way, right.

Brad  42:27  

So you have to the aspect where you're scared. And then maybe another one is, my dad saw me. And he started laughing at me or he said like, Oh, you're stupid or something. So now I have the shame of this other part of shame. And then I have this guilt for even doing that in the field first place, because I feel stupid. So like you can just lay are on so many different emotions, so many different things from one experience. And all of those things might need to be processed for you to fully heal. So there is different levels of complexity to the process. But it really like at the simplest at the core. That's really what it is.

Kayleen Wright  43:05  

Yeah. And one thing I want to say too, is like, you don't have to necessarily remember every single thing that you've been through and like start to be like, well, maybe it was this and this and this and this like sometimes what happens is you know, as you go through this process, it's kind of like dominoes, you ever line up dominoes. I was gonna say as a kid, but I did this this year, you line up dominoes, and you know, you knock one domino over and a bunch more others fall over, you know, if you have a big line of dominoes. And so sometimes it happens or not sometimes what happens, as you kind of go into this, this kind of inner world, right, so to speak, to do this processing is you knock over a domino and a bunch of other dominoes knock over as well. Right.

Kayleen Wright  43:46  

So there's a lot that goes on here. And I want to like, you know, sometimes we like to complexify things just so you get a better understanding. And you're not thinking like, oh, okay, that's easy, like, okay, and although, again, it's sometimes can be, but we also want to be real with you. And we want you to know what to expect. And at the same time, you know, if you're, if you're starting to feel like wow, that's like a lot, here's what I want you to say it's, it's, it's okay, you're so capable of doing this.

Kayleen Wright  44:10  

And all you have to do is take one step at a time. And so it can seem like a lot, and you might be like, You have no idea, Kay, like, I have a laundry list of things, I got to tell you something. And I gotta tell you from the bottom of my heart, and I mean this in, in a way that like this might be uncomfortable to hear. And sometimes it's my job as a coach to give you a hug and a kick in the butt at the same time.

Kayleen Wright  44:27  

Everyone has a laundry list. And I gotta be honest with you, you're not special. And like, that's very uncomfortable for me to say to you, but you're not. You can do this. Okay, no matter what you've been through, no matter what you're going through, no matter what your situation is, you can do this, you have a laundry list, so does everyone else and you just have to keep taking steps. And so if you ever feel like you're getting overwhelmed with this process, just go back to that go back to you are capable. I promise you that. And all you have to do is take one step at a time. Okay, so I just wanted to kind of bring that back to that.

Brad  44:59  

Yeah. Absolutely. Think that's awesome. So let's dive in to our final thing, which is how to actually get help with this; how to actually go through with the processing. Right. So, right? You good?

Kayleen Wright  45:14  

Yeah.

Brad  45:15  

Wasn't sure. So what are some ways that people can start actually healing? Right? That's the question, right? How I know I should be healing and coping, what are some ways that I can do that?

Kayleen Wright  45:28  

You know, so there's a lot of ways to heal here. Here's the thing, like, if you're getting the results that we're talking about, it doesn't matter what you're doing, keep doing it, if you're getting those results, where you're actually healing, keep doing it, there are so many ways to heal.

Kayleen Wright  45:42  

And, you know, we have kind of put together a collection of, again, what we call a roadmap and different tools and skills, so that you can go in at every angle, you can learn these tools and skills yourselves. And you can go in at every angle, and make sure that you do the full healing.

Kayleen Wright  45:57  

Now, these are best practices that we found after kind of searching and searching and searching at, you know, there are things that are effective, that, you know, maybe are 10% effective, and other things that are 90% effective. But if it's working for you, like totally do it. And so we have a couple of recommendations in regards to like if you're seeing clinicians, and that's the route that you want to go in, that's the route that you're going, what we would recommend, there's two specific skills now we teach actually four skills, four specific skills to get like four different angles of healing, inBroken to Unbreakable - in the program that we run - and two of the skills that we teach are basically adaptations of what we're going to share with you right here, you know, but but again, we want you to get help in in any way that it is that you need. And so whatever is working for you keep doing it, what I would encourage you, before I even share this, what I would encourage you to do, is anytime, you know, if you're doing this with a clinician, if you're doing this with a practitioner, whatever it is, anytime that you're doing it, ask if you can learn the tools yourselves, ask how you can continue to apply what you're doing in your sessions at home.

Kayleen Wright  47:04  

And anyone that tells you it's too dangerous, or you know, you can't or you need a professional, honestly, just find someone else, okay, or just just watch and take notes. Because, you know, again, what we do with Broken to Unbreakable, what we did with our recovery, you know, after a certain extent of like trying and failing and trying and failing and all these different practices and all these different therapies is, you know, it comes down to like, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. And an hour a week is just not going to do it, it's just not gonna do it.

Kayleen Wright  47:28  

So you have that laundry list, you get, you have to keep working on it. Okay, and so an hour week is not going to cut it. And that's maybe maybe you are healing, and you're like you have been in therapy for decades. And you're like, Well, no, I actually I'm making progress, I'm getting triggered less. But it doesn't have to take decades. And so when you can learn these skills, your skill yourselves, and again, we teach how to adaptations of each of these things we're going to share with you, that's how you're going to heal in weeks months, that's how you're going to get to true full healing, otherwise, you're going to be kind of lost.

Kayleen Wright  47:55  

So we're not saying you, you can't do this with a practitioner, because you totally can. And if your your practitioner is like, like, has our mindset and our goals and like oh, like heck yeah, like, let's go, let's hit it, let's, let's meet a couple times a week or let's meet longer, like, here are the things you can do at home, let me know how it goes. That's great. That's great, we implore you to do that.

Kayleen Wright  48:14  

So, a couple of a couple of things in regards to therapy. So big one is something called EMDR therapy. Now, maybe you've tried EMDR therapy, and this is I'm even a little hesitant to share that these two things. And it's because... so I want to back up here. So I want to back up. So the pillars of recovery, I mentioned that briefly, you know, throughout our, our session podcast here today, the pillars of recovery, I wanna, I want to cover them real quick, and we're going to cover them in depth in another episode. In order.

Kayleen Wright  48:43  

The pillars of recovery are mindset, routines, and processing in order I want you to think about mindset is the foundation for everything, then it's routines that kind of locks things in place. And then it's processing. And this is why I'm even a little hesitant to share. Because a lot of people will say, okay, like, I'm going to go do EMDR therapy, I'm going to do this therapy that you're recommending, and or have tried it and we'll say like I don't get results or you know, do more harm than good, or it didn't, it didn't work for me.

Kayleen Wright  49:11  

Okay, and typically what we find it's because the foundation is not there. Okay? And so that's why I'm like, maybe you're even feeling that and maybe you're hearing that, like I'm a little hesitant to share these things. It's because the foundation has to be there for you to get results with any clinician, any practitioner, you have to have the foundation of the mindset. And again, we're going to be covering that a lot more. But if you feel like you have that foundation, and maybe you do and that's great and you feel like you have the routines in place, here are here are the things I want you to eventually seek... again, maybe while you're working on that mindset, but just know if you're feeling like healing isn't working for you, it's probably because the foundations are wrong.

Kayleen Wright  49:50  

Okay, we need to get those foundations right. And then we need to try again. Okay, so EMDR is a big one. We're a big proponent for... again, we teach an adaptation of that. EMDR therapy was invented by a woman named Francine Shapiro (kind of like a personal hero of mine). She's not around anymore, but super, super cool woman. So effective. And that's a really great therapy, if you have a lot of memories or beliefs, okay, and so that's specifically when we kind of use that as a tool.

Kayleen Wright  50:18  

If you have a lot of like, you know, like, I call I called PTSD sometimes I call like cinematic, right, so like my, see I had c-PTSD, but, you know, some of my traumas or whatever, like very cinematic and the way that I experienced them very cinematic, right? So EMDR really good if you have like memories, you're like, Okay, yep, this, this, this, this this or beliefs and you're like, Oh, I just I hate myself, or that's not a belief, I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy. That can be a great place to start; specifically more with the memory so more with kind of a visual element. So if you're someone who experiences flashbacks or nightmares might be a really good place to start.

Kayleen Wright  50:53  

What I would say about that is a little bit intense, emotionally, just so you're kind of aware. But again, you're going to get a sense of relief, you're going to kind of feel things clicking into place. Another one again, you got to make sure you have your foundations right for that one. Another one is called IFS called it stands for...so EMDR stands for Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing, which actually Francine Shapiro specifically says she misnamed it so you can kind of ignore that actually.

Brad  51:19  

Yeah, she she wished he named it reprocessing therapy.

Kayleen Wright  51:22  

Because the desensitization, she's like it, that's it's not what it is. That's not what it is. And especially if you kind of know about it, you'll be like, Oh, that is what it is. It's like brainwashing, it's like, I'm just gonna go over it again. And again. And that's not what it is. She named it and then started testing it and getting results with it. And then she was like, shoot, like, too late to change it.

Kayleen Wright  51:42  

Okay, now, the other one is IFS, which stands for Internal Family Systems. This one we love. This one, again, we teach an adaptation for and you can overcomplex this one, or you can complexify this one big time. And you you want to try to stay simple, as much as possible, get the foundations of this therapy, right, when if you're going to go and do this with someone. And this one I would say is like one of the most noninvasive ways to heal. It is so gentle, it really doesn't require you know, it doesn't require memories, it doesn't require beliefs, necessarily.

Kayleen Wright  52:14  

So if you're like, I'm having this pain, and/or this emotional pain, if you feel that somewhere in your body, if you like pain in your in your chest, or if you like carry stress in your chest, or you know that you have things to heal, but you're not quite sure what they are, or you want a non invasive way to heal, IFS is for sure, kind of the way to start. Again, make sure you have your foundations right for this and we're going to cover this.

Kayleen Wright  52:36  

But IFS is a really really wholesome, great way to kind of go in in a noninvasive. So if you're like, you know, I want to do you know, some of this that you're recommending, I want to do it with a clinician, and, you know, but I'm just I'm really nervous about processing go and go and do some IFS work, and you're gonna see how noninvasive that process can actually be.

Kayleen Wright  52:55  

So, so that's what we got to have for you again, you know, if something's not working for you, something needs to change. And now there are a couple of variables that go into getting results with this work, right. So we just listed two tools that we teach adaptations of that work extremely, extremely well, like the success rate for these tools is unbelievable, it's off the charts, okay. And there are variables that go into if they work or not, one of the biggest ones being that foundation of mindset. So I just want to really reiterate that if you're like, this isn't gonna work. For me, this isn't working for me, we need to relook at the foundation.

Brad  53:29  

Yeah. And another whole aspect of it is that independence, like we talk about all the time, you having to be an independent healer, and taking recovery into your own hands and guilt... like really owning this journey for yourself. But like those two therapies, they're awesome, right? But even though, they're, they're awesome, they are also very, very limited and can often lead you out of that independent state into a dependent state where you are reliant on that person for your healing.

Brad  53:59  

So I wrote down a few things. Is like you might like with a therapist, I mean, I, I don't know anybody who doesn't have some sort of, like, emotional wall up. Right? Som barrier of like, I need to hold it together at some point, and I can't fully either be honest with myself or honest with a therapist, like there's this level of like, there's like this, what would you call that like barrier of like, comfort? Like you're not fully comfortable? When you're not fully honest.

Kayleen Wright  54:28  

I mean, there's nothing like being alone, and it's not Yeah, like, you can build a great relationship and, and, but like, your most intimate relationship is with yourself.

Brad  54:37  

It's like, you have to put out this big, big trust. Yeah, into this other person. And that's a really big barrier to healing because you're like, you're always gonna be like constantly thinking about, you know, you're always gonna have some sort of wall up because there's going to be another person there. So there's like pros and cons, definitely, but you're not going to be able to go as deep with somebody there.

Brad  54:55  

The second thing is like with that too, there are moments where you truly need to get like emotions out, right? Like real emotions out. And with a therapist, they'll bring you back to the present, they'll always bring you back to the present, they won't allow you to fully express what you need to express, to process that trauma fully. Which is another essential reason why you need to learn how to do these things. You're like yourself and become independent.

Brad  55:20  

So we're saying these are some ways to do it. But like, we talk about this all the time. It's not, it's not everything. And then you're the third thing is you're you're tied to their schedule, right? If they I have this experience, my therapist, like, I'm going on vacation for two weeks, I'm like, Well, what the heck do I do? So my life, my healing, my recovery is put on pause for two weeks, because you're not going to be here. Also, I can't do as much processing as I want to do because I'm like, I'm a go getter. Like I want to get things done, right?

Kayleen Wright  55:46  

You can't tell what kind of type A?

Brad  55:49  

And I'm like, Okay, how many times... I want to see you every day. Can I see you every day? She's like, well, I can do two times a week, I'm like, Okay, well, I'll take that, right. But like, honestly, I would have, I would have, I would have done eight hours a day, every day. Just to like, go deep, but you don't have that option, you're limited to their schedule to their time. And like, there's so much that needs to be done.

Kayleen Wright  56:11  

And you can accelerate that process. You know, Brad's talking about something we kind of call like, we call it accelerated healing. And once you know, the tools and skills, and there for sure are benefits of working with a professional 100%.

Brad  56:22  

We don't want you to get caught. So like, that's why we say these are great, if you're gonna do it. EMDR, IFS, they're awesome. You have our whole hearted like support, But we want also, we don't want you to be stuck in the independent or that dependent state. Because that's where so many people get stuck there. Okay, this is the thing. This this therapist is his thing, this modality is that thing or this, this, this process is that thing. And then you put all your hope into that. And then just go once a week, there's so many like, like Kayleen said, there's pros and cons, right? A pro is like you have someone there guiding you, and keeping you focus. Yeah, that's a huge, huge, huge, right.

Brad  57:00  

But there's so many other cons. So it's like, it can be one tool, it can be one thing to help you on your journey. But there's also this other piece of like, you might be in an area where there aren't any therapists who do EMDR or IFS, that's great, or you might have one, and they're really bad. That's true, too.

Kayleen Wright  57:17  

That's true, too. Or they might say that they can't help you. Because you're a special case, which we hear all the time.

Brad  57:22  

Like you like you're associate too bad for me to help you. And that's just just such a cop out. I hear that all the time from our clients. It's like, I went to this therapist for EMDR. But EMDR therapist said, you know, we can't help you because you just dissociate. Like, what you can't help this person. I'm like, is EMDR the only thing you know how to do? So if okay, if that thing doesn't work, you basically give up?

Kayleen Wright  57:47  

Yeah, you write them off. It's what it is. It's not the case with everyone, right? But what Brad's kind of talking about and I don't know, if you said this word specifically, but you'll hear this throughout the podcast is, you know, we work you know, specifically with the program, but with you with you as well. You know, we want to cultivate what we call an independent healer, we want you to be an independent healer. So we don't want you to be reliant on us, we're here to guide you and support you and give you everything that we have.

Kayleen Wright  58:15  

But your life is in your hands. And we want to make sure it stays that way. And we want to make sure that you're in full control of this journey, and you are an independent healer. So you're using us as a resource, but you're the boss, you're the boss, and we're a resource for you to use, where something to help you your therapist is someone to help you, your clinician, your doctor, whatever it is, is someone to help you you are top dog, you are the boss, the CEO of your life. And that sounds silly, but you you need to really take on that role. Because it's very easy. Brad and I have both been stuck in it. It's very easy to sit, you know, on the other side of that chair or the other side of that office, and and say Okay, great, now you can help me. Because you think that they have all the answers. And the reality is, is that they probably don't, and that's okay. But you need to make sure that you're seeking all the answers and take everything that they have. And then wherever there are gaps, continue looking, continue seeking continue getting support and getting help but stay top dog.

Brad  59:16  

Because you're you have to be the one who goes and you're the only person who can go inside of you and discover what needs to be fixed what needs to be healed. Even if you go through our process, or work with us. It's like, we're going to teach you the tools for you to go in because ultimately that is what is required. You ultimately have to take the steps. No one can take the steps for you. They're your emotions. They're your traumas, they your beliefs, they're your experiences. They're not anybody else's.

Brad  59:43  

Nobody else can do it for you; only you can do it. So you have to learn how to do it. You have to learn the skills. You have to learn the tools. You have to learn the way or else it's not gonna happen. Because if you're constantly looking for somebody else to do it, they can't do it.

Kayleen Wright  59:58  

As much as like... I say this all time: as much as I wish I could come and just stand in your shoes and do the work for you, I can't. I can't. You have to do it. So that's what I have.

Brad  1:00:10  

Yeah. So if if I hope you guys enjoy this episode, if you want help from us or want to work with us, you can go to overcomingptsd.com/consultation to book a call with us and we can talk. Otherwise, I hope you guys have a great, fantastic day.

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